2006 Exige S

This is where we proud owners can upload information and pictures of our pride-and-joys (their Exige that is..)
User avatar
andybond
Site Admin
Reactions:
Posts: 1213
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:16 am
Contact:

Fonzey wrote: Fri Aug 07, 2020 3:27 pm Image

That's a pic I took when I first bought the car, I dropped the dipstick and spent hours looking for it - it turns out it had landed in my sidepod...! Anyway, alternator still sat there chillin' on his own... 8-)
Ha! Whats the chances of that staying in there.

Have you found any of the 18 sets of 10mm sockets I have lost over the past few months in there?
User avatar
Fonzey
Reactions:
Posts: 811
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:17 am

I have some dyno graphs (from March!).

Timely really as the car is in for mapping this week, but although these were taken in (much) lower ambient temps on a different day on a different dyno (rolling road vs hub at RRR) it's still the only real reference I've got for the pre-2bular iteration of the car.

Headline figures will be redundant really, but at least I've got an idea of what the visualisation of power delivery looks like.

Image

Image

The two runs plotted represent the first and last of the power runs, so is a good illustration of just how effective the charge cooler was back in March and cooler temperatures.
User avatar
Fonzey
Reactions:
Posts: 811
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:17 am

ECU/Mapping update!

I collected the car on Saturday and although I've had very little time in the car, I can at least report on some bits! First off a note on RRR Engineering, very professional from the beginning with good communication, time/booking management and generally just see well organised. All attributes which are not as common as they should be in the car tuning world...

We agreed up front for the to have the car Saturday to Saturday, makes the logistics easier for me and allows them to do proper cold start tuning etc. Other than bolting in the ECU and mapping, I also asked them to supply and fit the ECUMaster EDL1 data logger unit and wire in my gearbox oil sensor that I recently added to the drain plug.
Image

On handover data Roberto was happy to chat for ages about my plans/trajectory for the car and discussed any gremlins I felt the car already had.

By end of Monday they had benchmarked the car with its 'as-is' setup just to make sure I didn't piss fuel/coolant/oil all over their workshop and the results came back as expected of "260ish". This matches my butt dyno opinion that neither charge cooler or 2bular system added much of anything on the 260 ECU.

By end of Wednesday the new ECU was in and the base map setup, I got a cagey e-mail back saying "yada yada hottest day of the year, intake temps, small power gain" etc but that they intended to do proper power tuning early on thursday.

I got some results by midday and they sounded both wrong and terrifying. I was told the car was doing "276ish at the hubs". AT THE HUBS.... factoring in 15% or so for transmission losses that would put my pub figure way into the 300s, a figure that I was almost certain my hardware wasn't capable of (stock pulley and 440cc injectors). I queried it of course, but there was only so much I could argue without sounding like an internet know-it-all so I just let it lie, and assumed there was a terminology mixup and that the car made 276 AFTER loss adjustment, which is much more in line with expectations. They even said "276 at the hubs so will be 320+ at the fly", so it's not just me mishearing terminology!

My main fear was that if by some miracle they did get 320+ out of it, gearbox would go from marginal to flat-out suicidal. I've already paid for a gearbox upgrade in my head, so I'm comfortable with it happening eventually... but not imminently!

A few hours later the final figure came in of 280bhp, again quoted at the hubs and this time printed on a graph.

Image

I know from a recent posting of a RRR graph from another Lotus owner that their graphs are usually posted 'at the hubs' which added up to what I was told verbally, but there are a couple of giveaways that suggest it has indeed been adjusted and is actually 280bhp ATF.

1) you can see the original benchmark run on it which is around 260bhp, if these were at the hub figures that would have been more like 215-220bhp.
2) the torque figure appears to be pre-adjustment (at the hub). Suggesting maybe BHP has been adjusted but torque has not?

In any case, this is probably just a comms hiccup between the guy doing the dyno/map and the guy communicating with me. If they usually do dyno graphs pre-adjustment then it's understandable that he would relay that info to me as such.

Anyway, none of that is really important in the end - I was expecting mid 270s, so 280bhp is a result and is right on my imaginary threshold for the gearbox. I fully expect it to fail at some point, but I think I'd be unfortunate for it to go bang immediately. We'll see eh.

After giving myself a panic induced headache at the thought of a 320bhp C64-eater, I decided to just see how the car drives and then take it from there.

Ignoring the figures, the torque curve looked promising, as it went from a hill to more of a ramp steadily increasing up to the limiter. In both BHP and torque the midrange from the benchmark run yielded minimal improvement, so perhaps the CC/Exhaust can take some credit for that - but the new map added clear gains low down and high up. Apparently the 440CC injectors peaked at 80% duty, so a nice safety net there - but any smaller on the pulley and 550's would be needed which matches what I expected.

On to collection day, had a quick walk around the car - paid my bills and hit the road just in time for the skies to open...

Image

This basically meant I didn't go above 4k RPM until I beat the rain and got within 20miles of my house, 2 hours after collecting the car. :lol: Impressions on the A1 though were very positive, car had an urgency at low RPM that it certainly didn't have before, pulling round slower moving traffic in 6th felt great.

Once onto dryer roads I gave the car a handful of 'pulls' and was impressed with the result, the power delivery has always been linear but the tail-off of torque is something I never noticed before, but was definitely a feature in retrospect. The car now pulls rampantly all the way to the top, each gear feels like it's been "promoted" and I imagine 2nd gear will be all but redundant at all circuits now due to the potency of third and above. For the record my butt dyno would say its closer to 280ATF than it is 320bhp, so that puts that to bed.

Despite that positive start, I think there may be a bit of ironing to do. The car seems to have some issues at low RPM whilst coasting to a stop. I think I've mentioned it on the thread before, but even previously on the Lotus ECU I had issues with the car periodically stalling when coasting to a stop, the revs would dip below idle and the car would just die unless I was quick to poke the gas to revive it.

I did report that to RRR, and the EMU is clearly responding well to this - as I no longer stall, but the initial drop in revs is still happening, the EMU just jumps in and recovers it for me... so an improvement yes, but still feel there's a root issue somewhere, possibly mechanical or a vac leak maybe? Not sure if the DBW cars have an idle air control valve or something similar, but I'm sure I can do some homework and find some parts to dismantle.

Aside from that I noticed that revs are a little slow to fall when dipping the clutch in first gear, which makes the car feel a little 'clumsy' when not used to it. This may have been engineered in to mitigate against the stalling detailed above - but it's something I can discuss with RRR once I get some more mileage done.

I spent the rest of my weekend fiddling around with the ECUMaster software, and started playing with the logging. I'm going to LOVE this once the car gets back on track!

Image

Gearbox temp sender seems to be working fine, and was logging temps of 79/80deg C all the way home. Temps didn't seem to leap up when the car is used enthusiastically like you would see with engine oil temps (or intake air temps) but I at least now have a benchmark, so can see how hot it gets on track.

Oh, quick note on traction control - for now the EMU is pretty much emulating the stock TC that I had, in that it's on or off - and that's about it. By RRR's own admission it's pretty agricultural and is certainly not suited for track use, but I have a couple of options for improving it if I want to:

1- Add a rotary switch at which point it becomes variable, perhaps I could find a sweetspot on a wet track in which it adds value. Again the logging stats for TC look really detailed, so would be interesting to see

2- Add some wheelspeed/CAN adapters and go full motorsport on it. Not sure exactly what that means, but almost certainly excessive for my use so probably something I won't bother with.

Unfortunately I won't be back in the car for a week or so, so need to wait to play with my toys later... :roll:
DarrylH
Reactions:
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:09 pm

Nice update @Fonzey I’m sure that is going to be a blast on track.

Interesting to hear the gearbox temps don’t really move when working the car more. I’m interested to see how much they move on a track day. My 944 gearbox used to get so hot on track that the diff characteristics would change. I never put a temp gauge on it but I did plumb a cooler and pump onto it.
User avatar
matt447
Reactions:
Posts: 122
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2020 7:13 pm

Very nice results mate! Will have to talk cold start parameters with you one day, lol... I noticed you’re set to 10 degrees BTDC ignition, same as me - if yours starts nicely when cold then mine must have a problem with something related to fuelling rather than timing... :)
ade
Reactions:
Posts: 7363
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 10:40 am
Location: Essex

I'm not surprised the gearbox temps are static on the road, I only ever ran my cooler on track to cool the gearbox or to assist in warming the gearbox oil ready for the first track session. You will be amazed how much the temps sky rocket on track.
Those traces you have look almost identical to mine when I first went to 260hp charge cooler and exhaust with a map to match, as a rule of thumb, every 0.1" smaller on the pulley equates to ~10hp and torque across the entire range >2500rpm! So 310hp ish from the 2.9" pulley, but given correction factors etc. I always used to just say 300hp+ :D
EMp21
Reactions:
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:10 am

Great thread!

Doesn't the EMU black use a built in MAP instead of the MAF? Where did RRR tap for this reading? I always though the exige idle issues were caused by the long intake tract behind the throttle body. I've wondered if putting a sensor right on intake manifold would improve the sometimes wonky idle.
User avatar
matt447
Reactions:
Posts: 122
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2020 7:13 pm

EMp21 wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:15 am Great thread!

Doesn't the EMU black use a built in MAP instead of the MAF? Where did RRR tap for this reading? I always though the exige idle issues were caused by the long intake tract behind the throttle body. I've wondered if putting a sensor right on intake manifold would improve the sometimes wonky idle.
RRR put a hose between the EMU Black’s MAP and the intake manifold on mine (done in March this year). Mine still showed stalling issues until they mapped it out - partly with an increased idle. I’m sure that if they had more time with my car they could get things better and better, but it’s dramatically better than the standard setup was on my car...
User avatar
Fonzey
Reactions:
Posts: 811
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:17 am

DarrylH wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 7:37 am Nice update @Fonzey I’m sure that is going to be a blast on track.

Interesting to hear the gearbox temps don’t really move when working the car more. I’m interested to see how much they move on a track day. My 944 gearbox used to get so hot on track that the diff characteristics would change. I never put a temp gauge on it but I did plumb a cooler and pump onto it.
Yep the car was no slouch on track before but as ever I look forward to seeing how this development works out. I just need to resist the urge to actually spend time on track, and not squinting over a laptop between sessions :lol:
matt447 wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 8:01 am Very nice results mate! Will have to talk cold start parameters with you one day, lol... I noticed you’re set to 10 degrees BTDC ignition, same as me - if yours starts nicely when cold then mine must have a problem with something related to fuelling rather than timing... :)
I'll take your word for it o the BTDC! I've only done one cold start so far and then have had to park the car up for a week anyway, so I don't want to claim success quite yet, but early impressions look good.
ade wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:30 pm I'm not surprised the gearbox temps are static on the road, I only ever ran my cooler on track to cool the gearbox or to assist in warming the gearbox oil ready for the first track session. You will be amazed how much the temps sky rocket on track.
Those traces you have look almost identical to mine when I first went to 260hp charge cooler and exhaust with a map to match, as a rule of thumb, every 0.1" smaller on the pulley equates to ~10hp and torque across the entire range >2500rpm! So 310hp ish from the 2.9" pulley, but given correction factors etc. I always used to just say 300hp+ :D
Yeah I'm expecting the temps to creep up on track, not sure what my cut-off would be yet for oil cooling. From my research it sounds like gearbox oil is less dependent on a minimum temperature because it's a closed system and doesn't need to worry about evaporating moisture etc, but it still need a certain level of heat to meet optimum viscosity... whatever that is! I think once I have a cooler in place, I'll manipulate the pump in such a way that I aim for 100deg max temperature.... because y'know, its a round number!
As for the pulley, it's tempting now as an option for cheap and easy power! I'm impressed with the 280bhp made on stock pulley and I can have confidence that SC is still operating in its sweet spot. I could have probably achieved this same power for much cheaper (add injectors/pulley and remove chargecooler/exhaust) but I feel happy that I've done things the 'safe' way. When the inevitable occurs and I end up spending on the gearbox, a pulley and injectors won't be far behind...
EMp21 wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:15 am Great thread!

Doesn't the EMU black use a built in MAP instead of the MAF? Where did RRR tap for this reading? I always though the exige idle issues were caused by the long intake tract behind the throttle body. I've wondered if putting a sensor right on intake manifold would improve the sometimes wonky idle.
Cheers! Yes it used built in MAP, mine is tapped into the intercooler piping so I guess the MAF is now totally redundant (and hence ruled out as being an issue for the stalling). I've not had much time this week yet but I know for sure the cable throttle cars have an IACV that is worth a good cleanout.... just not sure if the DBW cars retained that?! Other than that I guess I might have a trace of a vacuum leak, but as the car is running otherwise spot on - I find that unlikely.
Type116
Reactions:
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri May 01, 2020 3:18 pm

the fuelling looks a bit... all over, did they not give you a separate fuelling graph which displays the AFR ?

a smaller pulley will generate more heat and intake temps will skyrocket, you will have a gain to start with but wont last as soon as it gets 60+ IAT the ECU will probably start to pull timing leaving you with less than you have now. (we suffer the same situation on the VX220 circa 300bhp on 2.9" pulley is great, for 2 laps and then your sat at about 280bhp if not less.)

my advice would be to monitor the IAT see what you are getting now and try find out what IAT the ECU retards the ignition at, then you can look at using a smaller pulley.... or do what i did and fit water injection.
Post Reply